Broad Street Wrington ARCHIVE
Who was John Vane's father/mother ?
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Redhill, 11th January, 2005

Neil - I've only had a chance to scan the huge amount of material you've sent and referred to, so I'm sure there's lots I've missed. But I don't remember seeing the details of the Vane household in 1861 or the following references that are among the papers from Joyce Smith:

Details of John Vane's will In it an Earl Vane is mentioned three times. Michael Lawder believed him to be the eldest son of the second marriage of Charles, 3rd Marquis of Londonderry.

Michael Lawder also has a paragraph on JV's link with the Scarth family.

An extract from one of the Poems, Humorous and Philosophical, in Somerset dialect, by Joseph Edwards (Agrikler, or should it be Agricola?), that apparently refers to JV and suggests that he spoke very quietly but always got his way.

I think I know where JV's grave is in Burrington churchyard and have a note of its inscriptions.

If you've not got the details already by then, shall we try to meet up when I'm back in circulation in a few week's time?
John

From: William Paul McCulloch - Mountain View, California, USA, 24th December, 2005

I came across your website and thought I would share some information on Elizabeth Russell's family as she was the great aunt of a Laura Barbara Russell who married my great, great grandfather's cousin, Lieut. Col Henry Hewett. Laura's aunt, Isabella Ann Owen (née Russell), was the neice of the Dowager Duchess of Cleveland. Isabella was christened 04 Jun 1820 at Saint Mary, Lewisham, Kent, England, the daughter of Robert Russell. This Robert Russell was the brother of the Dowager Duchess of Cleveland.

The following is from "Landed Gentry of Great Britain and Ireland":

OWEN of BROADWAY HALL

Owen, John-Dorest, Esq. of Broadway Hall, co. Montgomery, J.P. high-sheriff 1844 b. in 1788; m. 1st, in 1820, Mary-Townsend, dau. of Carryl Fleetwood, Esq. of Liverpool; and 2ndly, in 1843, Isabella-Ann, dau. of the late Robert Russell of Lewisham, Kent, and niece of the Dowager Duchess of Cleveland. Mr. Owen is son of John Owen, Esq. by Mary, his wife, dau. of Francis Dodlet, Esq. of Plas Ucha, co. Denbigh. He purchased the estates of Broadway Hall from Sir. C.T. Jones, Knt.

(Seat - Broadway hall, co. Montgomery)

Additionally, the 1881 British Census places Laura Russell (niece) and Retired Officer Lt. Col. Henry Hewitt (Hewett) with Isabella Owen at Broadway House, Churchstoke, Montgomery Wales. Laura Russell's birthplace is listed as Barningham, York, England. Elizabeth Russell's father was reportedly a market gardener of Newton House, Burmiston, Co. York.

I would be interested in exchanging information with anyone who has additional information on this Russell family. It took me a couple of years to figure this much out. My family history erroneously stated that Henry Hewett was married to a daughter of Earl Russell!

I also found information indicating that Lord Normanby married Laura Russell (1816-85) at Burneston, Co. York on 17 August 1844, daughter of Captain Robert Russell, RN, and neice of Elizabeth, Dowager Duchess of Cleveland.

P.S. Merry Christmas to my Stevens' relatives around the globe!!!

From: Richard Thorn, 24th December, 2005

William

What a brilliant e-mail to receive on Christmas Eve - fascinating stuff ! You'll see I've copied this reply to Neil Jackson, the researcher whose information you will have looked at on the website. Given John Vane's connection with the nearby hamlet of Burrington, you'll be interested to know that, in common with cutbacks generally in the clergy of the Church of England, the present rector of Wrington, the Revd
Nicholas Maddock (I'm a churchwarden at All Saints') is about to add Burrington to his other responsibilities in February on the retirement of the present incumbent of Burrington. Thus the relationship between Burrington and Wrington will have come full circle since Vane's time.

With best wishes for Christmas,
Richard

From: Neil Jackson, Bath, 24th December, 2005

Thanks, Richard, for putting us in touch! Most interesting indeed. And strange (but rather fitting) to see Wrington & Burrington being paired up again, as you indicate! Full circle, to be sure...

Hi William - what an interesting development. I've had difficulty tracing really good information on the Russell family - and like you, I've not managed to get back any further than the Robert Russell who was the market gardener.

However, there is a some historic information regarding Elizabeth and her marriage to the 1st Duke of Cleveland (aka, William Harry/Henry Vane, 3rd Earl of Darlington, 1st Baron of Raby Castle, 5th Baron Barnard) - for it caused quite a stir in its day.

The Duke (who was widowered when his first wife Katherine died) was seen as remarrying below his station, and Elizabeth herself had been a past mistress of Thomas Coutts, the founder of the Coutts merchant-bankers which the Queen still uses to this day!

Some of the small info I have already managed to type up, is on my website at http://techno.demon.co.uk/Fitzroy-Vane-Pulteney/ - use the links on the left to find the Russell section - though bear in mind Elizabeth is the only one in that section for now! You might also want to follow the links to her husband, because he is rather interesting in himself!

I may have some other info elsewhere - I will endeavour to look for it - and I'm sure I've had conversations last year with someone who believed they may also have been descended from the Russell line at some point.

Their great-great-grandfather was a coachman at Newton House when the Reverend Harry Vane Russell, M.A. was in residence there - we have never successfully worked out what relation he was to Elizabeth, nor how he came to be named after 'Harry Vane' (the pet-name for the Duke), and this obviously links him (somehow) to the Vane family into which Elizabeth married. Commonplace, if he had been a son, but as Elizabeth & the Duke are not recorded as having any offspring, it raises a few
questions! Perhaps he is descended from Robert, Elizabeth's brother?

By 1881, at least, the Rev. Harry Vane Russell eventually ends up in Wem, in Shropshire, as Rector there (at St Peter & St Pauls, I think), and his only mention of note in the records there, is that he extended the Rectory, and that he was "a devoted parish priest and generous benefactor". He was buried in Wem in 1895.

Alas, although I was reasonably sure there was a brother Robert, as well as the father Robert, I never had sufficient proof to add him to my website - so your new information comes as a great help! My contact had previously mentioned to me that one of the Robert Russells (presumably the brother) is buried at St. Lambert`s Church, Burnstone (aka Burmiston, Burnestone - all the same place), and that a window in the church is dedicated to him. His date of death is 20th March, 1876.

Elizabeth herself is recorded as having made various donations and efforts on behalf of this same church - notably, she paid for the panelled roof there.

Regarding the new information you've just given me, there are some interesting questions raised...

It appears there is conflicting information as to who Laura Hewett (née Russell) is. She is referred to by one of your sources as the niece of Elizabeth, but it's fairly clear she was probably a grand-niece to the Elizabeth instead. This kind of 'oversight' is alas all too common in the records, I've found... nieces/grand-nieces/great-grand-nieces often just seem to get called 'niece'. Certainly, if she was actually Isabella Owen's niece (far more likely), then this implies that there must have been ANOTHER child of Robert (brother of Elizabeth), in order for there Isabella to have had a brother or a sister to have a niece by!

Given that Laura's maiden name appears to have been Russell, that implies
Isabella's sibling was a male. Your information mentions a Robert Russell RN - and as far as I know, this is NOT the same Robert who was Elizabeth's brother... so I think we must have three generations of Robert Russell, starting with the original market-gardener who was Elizabeth's father! Knowing this, may in turn help me nail down the
parentage of the elusive Reverend Harry Vane Russell, I hope!

Anyway - I've probably either bored you to death already, or given you information overload! If I lay hands on any more Russell information, I will try and pass it along to you. Meantime, thanks very much for supplying us with the info you have - I'm sure it will come in very useful indeed!

Best wishes (and of course, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone!)

From: Annette Bedford of Broadway House, Churchstoke, Montgomery, Wales, 29th December, 2005

Dear Bill

Thank you for your fascinating e-mail, it gave us much pleasure yesterday as we attempted to slot this information into what we knew already. The link with Lewisham is particularly interesting to me as although I originate from the Wales/ England borders, I did live in Lewisham for a number of years. I know Saint Mary’s church and the surrounding area well!

Sometime ago I did conclude that the association with Earl Russell was spurious but have recently started up a new business and had little time to pursue with accuracy. Isabella Russell was clearly well connected, as demonstrated by correspondence held in the local archives in Shrewsbury. The information you have provided is of great interest in this respect. I believe that one of Isabella’s brothers lived nearby at a place called Mellington Hall, and it is this that brought her to Montgomeryshire. There are also, however, links to the Vane family in Shropshire and I’ll now pursue that as a line of enquiry.

Isabella married John Owen late in his life. He married his first wife in the year that Isabella was christened! His parents Francis Dorset (not Dodlet) although gentlefolk had limited means and were an ongoing cause for concern to John Owen. John was essentially a self made man, amassing a fortune from wine and spirit importation through Liverpool. His first wife was the daughter of his business partner there Carryl Fleetwood. He also amassed a large coal mining and farming empire, as well as inheriting a considerable sum from an elderly female friend. His standing in the local community was significant being a JP, a High Sheriff of Montgomershire and ultimately the Deputy Lieutenant of Shropshire. From the documents I have studied he was clearly an astute business man, a bon viveur, but perhaps most significantly his wife Isabella held him in high esteem, referring often to him in fond terms in correspondence.

If you uncover anything else that may be of relevance to us I would be very pleased to hear from you. Thank you for the wonderful Christmas present!

PS Could I enquire as to the significance of Henry Hewett’s father? I assume there is some naval connection of significance?

From: William Paul McCulloch - Mountain View, California, USA, 29th December, 2005

Hello Neil,

It's a pleasure to be in touch with you. I have been searching for information the last couple of years on this Russell family and was steered in the wrong direction by a letter that my great grandfather's brother wrote stating that a relative of ours was married to a daughter of Prime Minister Earl Russell. I even had the late Lord Russell looking into this! His secretary recently wrote to tell me that my letter was among his papers when he died. (He was a friend of a cousin of ours, the late Baroness Janet Young).

Here are the children of Captain Robert Russell, RN, brother of the Dowager Duchess of Cleveland (with my notes added):

Elizabeth STEVENS Russell, born 21 Feb 1802 ("Stevens" indicates another possible connection to my mother's family)

John Abraham Russell, born 17 Dec 1803 (Henry Hewett's father-in-law)

Robert Russell, born 02 Dec 1805

Harry VANE Russell, born 26 Feb 1809 (his uncle was Sir William Henry Vane, 1st Duke of Cleveland)

Charles James William Russell, born 25 Aug 1808

Mary Ann Russell, born 29 Oct 1810

William Nathaniel Russell, born 20 Jun 1813

Laura Russell, born 18 Aug 1816 (she married Sir George Augustus Constantine Phipps, the 2nd Marquis of Normanby, Ninth Governor of New Zealand)

Margaret Catherine Russell, born 29 Jun 1818

Isabella Ann Russell, christened 04 Jun 1820 (she married into the Owen family of Broadway Hall)

You mentioned Laura Russell in your e-mail, and I have to ask, "Which one?" There were three of them. The one I mentioned as being niece of the Dowager Duchess of Cleveland was the daughter of Captain Robert Russell who married the 2nd Marquis of Normanby. In more detail, the three Lauras are:

1. Laura Russell, niece of the Dowager Duchess of Cleveland and daughter of Captain Robert Russell, RN. This "first" Laura was married to Sir George Augustus Constantine Phipps.

2. The "second" Laura was Laura E. Russell, a granddaughter of Captain Robert Russell. I don't know which of his sons this Laura descends from but she was a visitor at the time of the 1861 census at the home of her uncle, John Abraham Russell. She is listed as being 25-years old and born at Montgomery, Mellington (she appears to have had a "Ladies Maid" who was born at York, Barningham). I've seen Barningham, York, also listed as a birthplace for this Laura Russell so assume she must have lived there.

3. This "third" Laura was Laura Barbara Hewett (nee Russell), a granddaughter of Captain Robert Russell and daughter of John Abraham Russell (Retired Lieut. East India). She married Lieut. Col. Henry Hewett, the fourth child of Captain William Hewett and Ann Stevens. Laura B. Russell is listed on the 1861 census (with her cousin, Laura E. Russell) as being 24-years old and also born at Montgomery, Mellington. This Laura was christened 05 Oct 1836 at Stretton Church, Shropshire, England. Her parents were also married at Stretton Church. Perhaps you'll find some connection here to the elusive Rev. Harry Vane Russell.

I believe one of John Abraham Russell's brothers resided at Mellington Hall in Montgomery, Wales. This brother is likely to be the father of Laura E. Russell. I have not had time to verify this, but the information was relayed to me from the current owner of Broadway House, Churchstoke, Montgomery, Wales.

I hope this information was in some way helpful. Would you kindly please keep me in the loop should you make any additional discoveries? Due to time limitations with work, I don't anticipate looking any further into the Russell's lineage although I find it quite fascinating.

Best wishes and Happy New Year